| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| ChiDragon |
Posted - 05/17/2008 : 1:03:21 PM
Chapter 15 Those who devoted to Tao
PinYin
1. gu zhi shan wei shi zhe,
2. wei miao xuan tong,
3. shen bu ke shi.
4. fu wei bu ke shi,
5. gu qiang wei zhi rong:
6. yu xi ruo dong she chuan,
7. you xi ruo wei si lin,
8. yan xi qi ruo rong,
9. huan xi ruo bing zhi jiang shi,
10.dun xi qi ruo pu,
11.kuang xi qi ruo gu,
12.hun xi qi ruo zhuo,
13.dan xi qi ruo hai,
14.liao xi ruo wu zhi.
15.shu neng zhuo yi jing zhi xu qing?
16.shu neng an yi dong zhi xu sheng?
18.bao ci dao zhe bu yu ying.
19.fu wei bu ying,
20.gu neng bi er xin cheng.
Sino-English
1. Ancients who devoted to Tao's principle;
2. Are subtle with extensive wisdom,
3. Abyssal and inscrutable.
4. Since they are inscrutable,
5. Therefore, they were described with reluctance as:
6. Cautious as in winter stepping on river,
7. Vigilant as being four-way ambused,
8. Punctilious as a guest,
9. Harmonious as thawing ice,
10.Primitive as raw stock,
11.Vasty as valley in the mountain,
12.Confused as turbid water,
13.Quiet as deep sea,
14.Drifting as non stop,
15.Who can from chaos settled with calmness?
16.Who can from peacefulness motivated to move forward?
17.Those who kept Tao's principle,
18.Being not contented,
19.Because of being not contented,
20.Therefore, can discard the obsolete for renewal.
ChiDragon Speaks doesn't know
Tao Te Ching knows doesn't speak |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| ChiDragon |
Posted - 07/14/2008 : 09:57:28 AM
清靜無為
ChiDragon Speaks doesn't know
Tao Te Ching knows doesn't speak |
| Makoto |
Posted - 05/30/2008 : 9:27:46 PM
Thanks Mu,
That was a nice post.
Let me think a bit on a reply, however I agree with what you say.
Makoto |
| mu-tiger |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 7:29:47 PM
i have no issues with you, makoto. Some of your posts i enjoyed, others i found verbose and wouldn't finish, others i found irrelevent to me at this time, and still others just were filed away for possible future reference.
True colors...Wow, you don't ask much, do you? *i* think i'm pretty much as i am here, irl, but that's a subjective opinion. i'm a bit cranky from time to time, and i can get pretty bitchy if i feel someone's treading on me or someone else for no good reason, but it's rarely i truly lose my temper.
i'd enjoy getting to know you, i think, We seem to have some similarities with enough differences to keep things fresh, perhaps.
The other post, i missed you calling CD a pet name. My bad, was just makin sure. If you have issues with me, just let me know straight up what it is; i can't look at a behavior if i'm not aware of it. That said, i mostly don't give a fuck what anyone thinks of me; i'm so beyond all the dumb shit, by now; but if there's a serious behavioral issue, i want to know, so at least i can evaluate it, and examine my motives.
Cheers!
~Rawr!
Lurk moar |
| Makoto |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 12:23:52 PM
Mu,
I would be happy to roll in the mud with you anytime, I am from the year of the Pig, the mud is my home:-)
And if Dao is the art of camouflage, where better to be than hidden under the mud?
Maybe when we finish we can hose each other off and see each others true colors, that might be interesting?
Are we enemies? I didn't think so......
Makoto |
| mu-tiger |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 04:42:09 AM
lol. Makoto, i didn't know who it's directed to, but letting you know, 'ah they treat me like a god, they treat me like a leper; you see me move back and forth between both, i'm trying to find a balance...'
i haven't slung any mud here in a long time. As wth yourself, good sir, you'll find there's no mistaking my intentions, when i do. Wanna mudwrestle? 
~Rawr!
Lurk moar |
| Makoto |
Posted - 05/27/2008 : 9:56:38 PM
Mu, If my comments were directed at you, there would be no missunderstanding of my intent.
They are not directed at you, however I appreciate your willingness to sling a little mud of your own. |
| mu-tiger |
Posted - 05/27/2008 : 9:19:23 PM
Meh. i coulda used any translation, but you'd posted yours and cd'd posted his. Derek's xlation seems to jive with most others' accepted translators...idk, i keep saying i don't have time to add ancient chinese to my list of stuff that seems fun to do, but...rl demands i keep that list short. And that's why i chose his; i do pretty much trust his translations, it's how he weaves his interpretations that makes me wary. And i almost didn't want to post it here, lest some other poor innocent fall off on the guru's weirdness; but then i remembered where i was posting and i thought, 'hey. dao is open,' and posted it anyway. i guess if karma exists and some dumbass falls for the rest of the claptrap, it'll sort itself, eventually. ;/
*Edit: if you're talking to me, makoto, i don't particularly give a fuck. Hope that settles your mud a little.
~Rawr!
Lurk moar |
| Nina |
Posted - 05/27/2008 : 6:13:15 PM
You've got to be kidding, Mu. Lin actually requires anyone who quotes his translation to give reference to the title of his book and link to his web site?
That kind of makes mincemeat of this translation of his:
"One who holds this Tao does not wish to be overfilled
Because one is not overfilled
Therefore one can preserve and not create anew"
When I tried to link back to my web site at his forum, I was chastised and threatened with banning! One way street, huh? 
-Nina
|
| Makoto |
Posted - 05/27/2008 : 4:01:01 PM
Ah ChiWeenie, you are a funny and misguided soul.
My Psycho-O-Meter tells me you are a self proclaimed snake oil salesman with no knowledge of Dao at all.
But as long as you feel important I guess the world will still spin......
Makoto |
| mu-tiger |
Posted - 05/26/2008 : 8:45:29 PM
Yeah well, truth is where you find it; i don't see any major differences between the two. You going to hit and run and skirt the issue at hand, again, cd? ok, have it your way. i don't give a fuck, anymore, but i'll call you on it for my own amusement, if i get bored.
"We own nothing, nothing is ours,
not even love so fierce
it burns like baby stars; but this poverty is our
greatest gift,
the weightlessness of us
as things around begin to shift..."
InDiGo GiRlS
Lurk moar |
| ChiDragon |
Posted - 05/26/2008 : 7:42:38 PM
Mu...
In the past, I had a long hurdle with Derek Lin about Chapter 1. We have a major difference of interpreting the chapter. I still have reservations about his translations.
ChiDragon Speaks doesn't know
Tao Te Ching knows doesn't speak |
| mu-tiger |
Posted - 05/26/2008 : 7:14:04 PM
That's cool CD; what i'm asking is, how do you personally, apply this to your life? Can you offer some examples?
"Hesitant, like crossing a wintry river"
Thinking things through, step by step. Round here it's said: STOP! THINK about it. Main thing is DON'T Panic.
A lot of people mistake kindness or quietness for weakness; One can get upset and flip on them, or one can say nothing, wait, watch, inevitably a situation arises that will offer an opportunity for the situation to correct itself, without a lot of unnecessary drama. Ie, it psychs out an opponent even more when you ignore them, so that they get angry and make moves that only hurt or embarrass themselves -- embarrassment is hard to have when your ego takes a back seat to your logic.
"Cautious, like fearing four neighbors"
Aware and alert, watching your own front, back and sides; and if it pleases you, those of your neighbors. Yesterday, While hanging out, enjoying good food and beveraesi was sparring with a neighbor boy, big boy, maybe 5'3" and 185 lbs. In the beginning, i fought a good fight, balanced, quick, blocking blows (he only used his hands, idk if he knew how to use his feet and was restrained or didn't know how and didn't try), landing several, firmly, squarely; but my opponent was smart; he knew he has bigger lung capacity to me and more stamina (i smoke ;p); he waited, watched, learned to stay well away from my hands and feet,, all the while circling me, keeping me moving, dancing, weaving, it was beautiful, poetry in motion.
"Solemn, like a guest"
Quiet, contemplative, digesting what is said and going on around you. Hard to hear much when you're talking. HArd to learn anything when you already know it all. i learn a lot when i keep my mouth shut.
"Loose, like ice about to melt"
Going with the flow; planning is useful but rigidity is not. What is stressing about the traffic jam preventing me from getting to work on time doing for me? Causing me health problems and, if it exists, bad karma. There's one way in and out to my job. Might as well sit back and enjoy whatever CD i have in my cd player. And i do. And if i'm late one more time, i'm getting canned. 
'Genuine, like plain wood'
Plain, not molded to anyone else's purpose, unvarnished by a mask, my face before i was is shown. Here it's called 'keepin it real, nigga.'
'Open, like a valley'
Receptive to whatever arises, i can deal with it; i find when i sit back and watch a drama unfold, i can almost read it like a textbook psych case study, whether online or irl; i'm not sure how much is so learned as to now be wu-we-wu intuition and how much is real intuition; either way, it works. People think they are so clever and so deceptive, and yet...when you pay attention, your mouth is closed and your ears and eyes open, you can avoid almost anything that could harm you; but not always. :)
'Opaque, like muddy water.'
Though you're plain as day, others don't know what to think; they have their own agendas and judge us by what they would say/do/think/feel in a similar situation. Stupid mistake; and even stupider still when you tell them, straight up, so they don't misunderstand you and they still try to pull that bullshit -- and inevitably, here, they surely do. This is especially true of the latino population, nnd that's not racist, that's honest, although it is a rather broad and sweeping generalization. That said, there are always exceptions, and the latino people are near and dear to my heart. Heh, last three guys i dated more than a time or two were latino. i've learned a lot about this culture, over the last two decades, but, still, they too are opaque, as muddy waters, til you wait til...i'll save it for the appropriate verse.
'Who can be muddled yet desist
In stillness gradually become clear?'
Can you embrace chaos as a friend and brother? When you can allow the chaos to control the situation around you, and give yourself completely to it, without being controlled by it, almost nothing can touch you for more than a (relative) moment...or...this too shall pass, stay cool and watch others around you tripping. "CHILL, NIGGA!"
'Who can be serene yet persist
In motion gradually come alive?"
"One who holds this Tao does not wish to be overfilled
Because one is not overfilled
Therefore one can preserve and not create anew"
Now the legal stuff, since i can't afford a lawsuit:
Tao Te Ching
Tao and Virtue Classic
Translation by Derek Lin
Permission is hereby granted to site visitors who wish to quote from this original work. Please credit as your source www.Taoism.net and Tao Te Ching: Annotated & Explained, published by SkyLight Paths in 2006.
"We own nothing, nothing is ours,
not even love so fierce
it burns like baby stars; but this poverty is our
greatest gift,
the weightlessness of us
as things around begin to shift..."
InDiGo GiRlS
Lurk moar |
| ChiDragon |
Posted - 05/26/2008 : 6:31:37 PM
Makoto,
I see you are receiving inscrutable instructions from your Dao teacher. Furthermore, you are constantly using your Crap-O-Meter to monitor your infinitesimal knowledge of the DDJ.
BTW, may I have the latest charts of the test result from your Psycho-O-Meter....???
ChiDragon Speaks doesn't know
Tao Te Ching knows doesn't speak |
| Makoto |
Posted - 05/26/2008 : 1:04:54 PM
Chi, it's your turn to set of the Crap - o - Meter.
Have you ever had a Dao teacher??????????
|
| ChiDragon |
Posted - 05/26/2008 : 11:19:11 AM
quote:
Originally posted by mu-tiger
heya CD; actually that's how i apply those lyrics to my life, too. Thanks for sharing that. What i'd like to ask everyone, beginning with you, is how you apply this chapter to daily life, chapter 15.
MU...thank you for your kind words.
Here are the clues how we apply in our daily lives.
6. Cautious as in winter stepping on river,
In winter, the water is icy in the river. One would across the river very carefully to prevent a fall into the water. Thus, this tells us to be careful of what we do to prevent any downfall.
7. Vigilant as being four-way ambushed,
Be alert, anyone around you can hurt you.
8. Punctilious as a guest,
One should be nice, humble and polite to others and treat people with respect; and try not to offend anyone.
9. Harmonious as thawing ice,
Try to blend in with your crowd and society.
10.Primitive as raw stock,
Try not to be someone else but your own self. This also applies to make life as simple as possible.
11.Vasty as valley in the mountain,
Open your heart as wide as the valley to view things and accept others.
12.Confused as turbid water,
Be naive and innocent as turbid water so there is no nefarious thouhgt in your mind.
13.Quiet as deep sea,
14.Drifting as non stop,
Stay calm and cool forever, as the quiet sea, when problem arise.
15.Who can from chaos settled with calmness?
16.Who can from peacefulness motivated to move forward?
17.Those who kept Tao's principle,
18.Being not contented,
19.Because of being not contented,
20.Therefore, can discard the obsolete for renewal.
Who can do all the above? By knowing the principles above and not being contented, one will be able to adapt new changes.
ChiDragon Speaks doesn't know
Tao Te Ching knows doesn't speak |
| mu-tiger |
Posted - 05/25/2008 : 10:26:42 PM
heya CD; actually that's how i apply those lyrics to my life, too. Thanks for sharing that. What i'd like to ask everyone, beginning with you, is how you apply this chapter to daily life, chapter 15. i apologize for not being clearer.
Thanks for sharing yourself here. i appreciate your commentary of the lyrics. It makes sense. i don't think that hard about it, unless i'm trying to own something i have no business owning; but in the end, we don't own anything and if we live to serve things, as smallinn pointed out, soon, they own us.
"We own nothing, nothing is ours,
not even love so fierce
it burns like baby stars; but this poverty is our
greatest gift,
the weightlessness of us
as things around begin to shift..."
InDiGo GiRlS
Lurk moar |
| ChiDragon |
Posted - 05/25/2008 : 12:37:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by mu-tiger
Hey CD, maybe you can share how you apply this to your life and what does/doesn't work for you, with it.
"We own nothing, nothing is ours,
not even love so fierce
it burns like baby stars; but this poverty is our
greatest gift,
the weightlessness of us
as things around begin to shift..."
InDiGo GiRlS
Lurk moar
Chapter 20: Lines
14. But seems only I'm in deficit.
"We own nothing, nothing is ours,"
19. Only I'm that simple and primitive.
"but this poverty is our greatest gift,"
23.Because I valued ate from Mother.
"the weightlessness of us as things around begin to shift..."
I will flow naturally with mother nature.
I rather own nothing and due away with my financial burden. Since I am in the rat race, I will keep every burden to a minimum to lighten my load.
5. Things people fear, cannot be not feared.
Love so fierce it burns like baby stars; I will try to minimize the burning pain by accomplish something to ease the mind.
ChiDragon Speaks doesn't know
Tao Te Ching knows doesn't speak |
| mu-tiger |
Posted - 05/24/2008 : 8:50:24 PM
Hey CD, maybe you can share how you apply this to your life and what does/doesn't work for you, with it.
"We own nothing, nothing is ours,
not even love so fierce
it burns like baby stars; but this poverty is our
greatest gift,
the weightlessness of us
as things around begin to shift..."
InDiGo GiRlS
Lurk moar |
| ChiDragon |
Posted - 05/24/2008 : 12:11:48 PM
quote:
If you were making use of Sister Nina's useful work (Text Comparisons), available free here, you could be working with seven versions: Wang Bi, Heshang Gong, Fuyi, MWDa, MWDb, the Guodian and Nina's YDDJ redaction. My matrix has an eighth. All in Pinyin and Traditional characters.
bradford
www.hermetica.info
I know but my main reference had considered all of them and interpreted with a more meaningful composite version. I just used the PinYin version here as a guide. Next time I will look it carefully. Thanks
ChiDragon Speaks doesn't know
Tao Te Ching knows doesn't speak |
| bradford |
Posted - 05/24/2008 : 11:26:35 AM
quote:
[i]Originally posted by ChiDragon
I over looked the PinYin section. I have three sources to work with.
If you were making use of Sister Nina's useful work (Text Comparisons), available free here, you could be working with seven versions: Wang Bi, Heshang Gong, Fuyi, MWDa, MWDb, the Guodian and Nina's YDDJ redaction. My matrix has an eighth. All in Pinyin and Traditional characters.
bradford
www.hermetica.info |
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