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jimclatfelter
USA
1026 Posts |
 Posted - 07/24/2010 : 09:36:20 AM
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| The beginning is now. The invisible is now. Dao is now. Why place it in the past? The beginning, the invisible Dao is at the center of you being right now. It's present tense! |
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ChiDragon
USA
2863 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2010 : 10:18:12 AM
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So the snake bites its tail once again.
Let's look at Chapter 25 and 42.
Chapter 25
1. 有物混成
2. 先天地生。
1. There was a thing blended together,
2. Before the heaven and earth were born;
Interpretation:
There was INVISIBLE thing, called "Wu", spinning and spinning until it become VISIBLE , now is called "You". Wu and You are the two phases of Tao from invisible to visible.
Chapter 42
1. 道生一。
1. Tao engenders One;
Interpretation:
Again here, Tao is INVISIBLE engendered One. One is being VISIBLE from formless to manifestation.
Since Tao is before heaven and earth, therefore, heaven and earth had to be created by Tao...
2. 一生二。
2. One engenders Two;
One is the manifestation of Tao. Now, Tao spins until it splits into two parts to create heaven and earth. The lighter part ascended as Heaven. The heavier part descended as Earth. Yijing designated Heaven as Yang and Earth as Yin.
3. 二生三。
3. Two engender Three;
Now, the two are the Yang and Yin became homogeneous integrated as a vital element(Three).
4. 三生萬物。
4. Three engender all things.
Three, now is the vital element representing all things in the Universe.
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CD speaks doesn't know.
TTC knows doesn't speak. |
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ChiDragon
USA
2863 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2010 : 10:25:11 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jimclatfelter
The beginning is now. The invisible is now. Dao is now. Why place it in the past? The beginning, the invisible Dao is at the center of you being right now. It's present tense!
Chapter 1
3. 無，名天地之始﹔
4. 有，名萬物之母。
3. Invisible(Wu2) was the name given to Tao at the origin of heaven and earth.
4. Visible(You3) was the name given to Tao as the mother of all things.
"Invisible" and "Visible" were Nouns by the definition given in the DDJ.
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CD speaks doesn't know.
TTC knows doesn't speak. |
Edited by - ChiDragon on 07/24/2010 10:28:15 AM |
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jimclatfelter
USA
1026 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2010 : 10:42:18 AM
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The origin and the invisible are right now, present tense. So are the visible and the mother. We see the visible and the mother. We overlook the invisible and the original.
Laozi isn't concerned with the creation of the universe. He is revealing the structure of existence.
edit to add:
The Dao is not so difficult.
It's really just a simple scheme
To see within the way things are
And see without the way they seem.
Anyone can do it.
One needn't be a whiz
To see within what isn't
And see without what is.
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Edited by - jimclatfelter on 07/24/2010 11:03:57 AM |
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Steve
USA
575 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2010 : 11:21:49 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jimclatfelter
The beginning is now. The invisible is now. Dao is now. Why place it in the past? The beginning, the invisible Dao is at the center of your being right now. It's present tense!
Very nice, Jim.
The immediacy of it cannot be conveyed in words. We stumble around it and think of it in terms of "beginnings" only because our brains--our humanness--are incapable of dealing with the idea of that which has no beginning and no end. That thought, that understanding--that there is no beginning and no end--can be expressed only in our poetry.
Laozi--the consummate poet--attempted to do so in his little book. |
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ChiDragon
USA
2863 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2010 : 11:46:55 AM
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This is not about the beginning nor the end. It was the distinction about Tao in indifferent phases in time. Thus in one phase in time Tao was called "Wu" and the other was called "You".
"Wu and you", these two come from one origin but differ in name.
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CD speaks doesn't know.
TTC knows doesn't speak. |
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gar
45 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2010 : 11:59:46 AM
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Greetings
Perhaps Dr. Wayne L. Wang words help here.
"Tao philosophy may be expressed in two levels of state or reality: the classical states and the actual states. The classical states refer to our experiences with the world of appearances and the actual states to realities in a transcendental domain. The classical and actual states are related, mathematically or symbolically, to form a Principle of Oneness 藥B This principle is clearly exemplified in the relationship between Wu and Yu L, and it is a fundamental characteristic of Tao philosophy. Our Basic Theory of Tao Philosophy is built on this principle."
in peace,
gar
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ChiDragon
USA
2863 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2010 : 3:17:49 PM
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Greetings...
LaoTze used Wu/You in different sets of meanings. Chapter 1 was only one of the sets. It was not about about classic state nor actual states. Furthermore, it was not about a fundamental characteristic of Tao philosophy; nor a Basic Theory of Tao Philosophy is built on a principle. Perhaps in the later chapters but not in Chapter 1. If one read Chapter 1 carefully, LoaTze was only describing what Tao is by his own definition.
Chapter 1...
1. Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao.
2. A name that can be named is not an eternal name.
3. Invisible was the name given to Tao at the origin of heaven and earth.
4. Visible was the name given to Tao as the mother of all things.
5. Hence, when Tao is always invisible, one would grok its quale.
6. When Tao is always visible, one would observe its limitation.
7 These two come from one origin but differ in name,
8. Both are regarded as fathomless; the most mysterious of the mysterious;
9. The gate of all changes.
In this chapter, I don't see any fundamental principles described here. Indeed, I only see that Tao is in different states with respect in time.
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CD speaks doesn't know.
TTC knows doesn't speak. |
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jimclatfelter
USA
1026 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2010 : 3:58:21 PM
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The immediacy of it cannot be conveyed in words.
Yes, Steve, indeed. We all live in the Immediacy of Dao. It's a great satisfaction and a delight to be aware of the Presence of Dao in the present. I think Laozi found it so too. |
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ChiDragon
USA
2863 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2010 : 10:01:35 AM
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This image is the Chinese clock with twelve time units; each unit is equal to two hours. The diagram also know as the "Sun Dial" which was placed in the front of the ruler's palace for the official time keeping.
There is a needle in the center of the Sun Dial to cast the shadow on the time unit, by the sun, as the earth moves.
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CD speaks doesn't know.
TTC knows doesn't speak. |
Edited by - ChiDragon on 08/04/2010 10:06:00 AM |
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Twinner
USA
322 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2010 : 9:29:53 PM
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When I see this topic I keep thinking of "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" My answer is, does it really matter, both can be fried.
Just kidding. I really don't worry about this stuff so much, because in the grand scheme of things, how does it effect me right now? I'm not trying to belittle anyone's comments, I guess (as Jim has said here) I've gotten over my, "what is the mystery of life phase" and I'm more in the "lets enjoy the moment" phase, so this line of thought doesn't occupy my time as much.
With that said, I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't acknowledge that I've thought about all of this at one time to a great degree, even fairly recently, I just don't think I have any answer or came up with any answer that really seemed to be an answer. At least not an answer that I could prove to be an answer.
Hope life is treating you well,
Aaron |
Edited by - Twinner on 08/22/2010 9:35:56 PM |
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Is Tao an Ontological Essence of Life?
