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Nina
USA
6392 Posts |
 Posted - 07/09/2010 : 6:20:19 PM
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Yes, CD.
Lots of people do things that aren't natural for them. I've done things in the past that weren't natural for me too.
When people come searching for a philosophy (or religion) many of them want to be told what to do. They haven't yet found their core, so they think someone else has a core they can attach to.
Steve has decided to not answer my questions, but maybe someone else here will?
1. How did you find out what was "naturally" you?
2. What do you do (if anything) to help others find what is naturally themselves?
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ChiDragon
USA
2863 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2010 : 11:14:28 AM
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1. How did you find out what was "naturally" you?
I had founded what was "naturally" me is the negative side of me which is unnatural to others. In order to find the "naturally me" is to follow principle of Wu Wei in the DDJ; and let things happen in a positive way instead of negative. Sometimes, positive things can backfired as negative but not as often as negative backfired as more negative.
Ever since I have studied the DDJ, by following the Wu Wei principle; I had learned by accepting a negative person was being natural because that is the way the person is. I just have to cope with the person as the kind of situation arises. If the person acts negatively, I will act positively or Wu Wei with no action involved to interfere with the human relationship. As a Taoist, I was being in a state of serenity to be impartial. Impartial, here, means for being not holding any negative thinking about the person with a negative attitude. BTW there was no need to get upset about anything, is there.....???
2. What do you do (if anything) to help others find what is naturally themselves?
Study the Tao Te Jing and try to understand it......
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CD speaks doesn't know.
TTC knows doesn't speak. |
Edited by - ChiDragon on 07/23/2010 11:16:42 AM |
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Nina
USA
6392 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2010 : 6:30:21 PM
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Thanks for the response, CD.
How do you determine whether a person (or yourself) is being positive or negative?
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jimclatfelter
USA
1026 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2010 : 7:11:20 PM
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How did you find out what was "naturally" you?
The 1950's was not an ideal time to be gay and a teenager. I knew what was natural for me, but others knew what they thought was natural and normal for everyone in the world. I didn't find Laozi until I was 25, but imagine how it felt to find someone expressing what I knew was true. The social norms don't apply to everyone. My nature found me. I didn't have to hunt for it.
Maybe you all don't remember the 1950's. I have to laugh when they call my parents' generation "the greatest generation." What a time of conformity! It was the children of the greatest generation who broke so many barriers--racism, sexism, homophobia, and many others. Well, it was some of the children. Those teenagers from the 1950's are in their 60's and 70's now, and so many of them don't embrace the positive changes that 50 years have brought.
What do you do (if anything) to help others find what is naturally themselves?
What can I do? I give my honest opinions when asked. I don't support right wing politics or religion. I despise those things. Truthfully, no one asks me for help in finding their natural selves. Whatever I can do to promote Dao seems to me to be the best I can do. Finding Laozi made a huge difference in my life. If I can pass that on to others, I trust that some will find it just as helpful and healing as I did. |
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gar
45 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2010 : 03:27:18 AM
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Greetings all,
It seems to me what is natural is not static, as we are not static.
So perhaps, being natural is resonating with Tao and not what we think natural is since thinking results in a point of view which is static.
in peace,
gar |
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ChiDragon
USA
2863 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2010 : 10:31:07 AM
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Wu Wei is to act nothing against nature. Doing nothing is not static.....???
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CD speaks doesn't know.
TTC knows doesn't speak. |
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gar
45 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2010 : 11:48:35 AM
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greetings ChiDragon
Perhaps you are correct and you are not static in your view.
in peace,
gar |
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Nina
USA
6392 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2010 : 5:56:17 PM
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It's interesting, Jim, that the DDJ was first embraced in a big way in the U. S. by the hippies (me being one of them) in the 60's. I think we really "got" what it was suggesting - that it was okay to be ourselves and not have to cater to the dogmas and rules set forth by religion and government.
Before that time (with the publishing of the Feng/English translation), the English translations were mostly by religious zealots who found commandments in it. Of course, there are still those who view the DDJ as something that tells one how to act and what to do. Even the idea set forth about wuwei by some seems like - telling someone what they should (not) do.
The whole thing about being homophobic is so weird to me. My first boyfriend in high school was gay. He was my boyfriend because he thought he was straight, then found out he wasn't. So, he thought I might be gay too. What the hell? So I tried making out with a couple of very nice and pretty lesbians, but ....... no go. Nope, I wasn't gay. But I loved hanging out with him and his friends. They called me The Cuntessa. Great fun we had!
I think Laozi suggested we don't make judgments on how others live their lives. I can like or dislike a gay person...... and like or dislike a straight person.
Maybe liking or disliking someone is part of our natural self too?
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jimclatfelter
USA
1026 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2010 : 6:22:39 PM
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They called me The Cuntessa. Too funny, Nina! I'm glad the name didn't stick.
Witter Bynner's The Way of Life According to Lao Tzu was published in 1944. It was very popular in the 60's, and it was the first version I read. It wasn't religious at all, and Witter Bynner was gay, though I didn't know it at the time.
Maybe liking or disliking someone is part of our natural self too?
I'm usually prepared to like anyone who isn't hostile or too-too superior in their attitude. I'm glad that's natural to me.
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searching
United Kingdom
947 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2010 : 12:52:05 AM
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by Nina[/i]
[br]It's interesting, Jim, that the DDJ was first embraced in a big way in the U. S. by the hippies (me being one of them) in the 60's. I think we really "got" what it was suggesting - that it was okay to be ourselves and not have to cater to the dogmas and rules set forth by religion and government.
Before that time (with the publishing of the Feng/English translation), the English translations were mostly by religious zealots who found commandments in it. Of course, there are still those who view the DDJ as something that tells one how to act and what to do. Even the idea set forth about wuwei by some seems like - telling someone what they should (not) do.
The whole thing about being homophobic is so weird to me. My first boyfriend in high school was gay. He was my boyfriend because he thought he was straight, then found out he wasn't. So, he thought I might be gay too. What the hell? So I tried making out with a couple of very nice and pretty lesbians, but ....... no go. Nope, I wasn't gay. But I loved hanging out with him and his friends. They called me The Cuntessa. Great fun we had!
I think Laozi suggested we don't make judgments on how others live their lives. I can like or dislike a gay person...... and like or dislike a straight person.
Maybe liking or disliking someone is part of our natural self too?
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Nina
USA
6392 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2010 : 6:32:32 PM
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Jim-
I liked the name Cuntessa. They didn't mean it in a derogatory way (they loved me!), but as a descriptive of something I had that they didn't. 
I looked up Witter Bynner, and from what I read he was very anti-religious. But it also said that his "translation" was based on 14 English translations he had. He didn't actually translate from Chinese himself. He took the English words from those other translations and rephrased them to suit what he wanted to express.
You've gone so far beyond him with your own work on the DDJ. Yay!
I hear you about the like/dislike thing. One other thing about some people I dislike is when they play the "poor me" card. I can have sympathy for people going through shit, but when their whole lives revolve around tying to get people to feel sorry for them?
Well, what can you do? I remember something my dad said:
"I cried because I had no shoes till I met a man who had no feet."
So many things to be grateful for!
Even people I dislike!!!!!
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jimclatfelter
USA
1026 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2010 : 7:48:08 PM
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You're right, Nina, about Bynner's version not being a translation. I think he got the spirit right, and his poetry is beautiful. He's funny too. This one makes me laugh: 36
He who feels punctured
Must once have been a bubble,
He who feels unarmed
Must have carried arms,
He who feels belittled
Must have been consequential,
He who feels deprived
Must have had privilege,
Whereas a man with insight
Knows that to keep under is to endure.
What happens to a fish pulled out of a pond?
Or to an implement of state pulled out of a scabbard?
Unseen, they survive.
I really see that as more than rearranging the words of other people. It's quite original -- simple and direct. I think Laozi would have liked it. Sometimes not being so literal captures the freedom and spontaneity Laozi favors. Well, that's just my opinion. I have a hard time feeling I've gone any distance beyond this, but I appreciate your saying so.
You got me curious, so I looked up Bynner on the web. I had never seen a picture of him before. He looks quite rakish. I'll have to read more about him. Maybe I can find some of his other poems.
You were lucky to have had such friends in you Cuntessa days. Friends from our high school days can be so important. I still think of some of mine. I keep in contact too.
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metaphysical ?
